Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:05 So Castor Michael, we have our next question from our series of questions on Roman Catholicism. How do I share the gospel with a Roman Catholic?
Speaker 2 00:00:14 So if you're a Roman Catholic and you're tuning in, you're probably thinking, this is a really weird question for me. This for me is, is for me this for you. I know, right? And, um, I, let's just pause for a moment. Even the, the fact that a Protestant is asking the question mm-hmm. <affirmative> shows that there is a, we'll just say, uh, a discrepancy between how the two understand the good news of Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so for a Roman Catholic, the good news of Jesus Christ is, uh, you can be saved if you are baptized. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and if you proceed in the sacraments mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and you accrue good works mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and you believe in Jesus. And, and what we've talked about in this series is, is that it is essentially a sacramental gospel. Sure. And for the Protestants is we open up the scriptures, we don't see a sacramental gospel at all.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 We don't see a workspace gospel. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we see that the, that salvation is by grace through faith to anybody who believes in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Right. So there's a, there's a a difference here. And so for the Protestants, when we see that there is somebody who believes that they need to earn their salvation, or is the, um, the Roman Catholics will quote the apostle Paul Philippians that they need to now through good work and sacraments fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, we get concerned and we say, I don't know that you've actually understood. Right. The gospel, the good news, the good news is that you don't need to work mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you don't need to perform sacraments in order to be saved. There actually are, there's no good work that you can do mm-hmm. <affirmative> to earn salvation. Um, you can only believe in Jesus Christ and have his righteousness put into your account. You can't get merit and righteousness from other places other than Jesus.
Speaker 1 00:01:58 And his righteousness is more than enough.
Speaker 2 00:02:00 More than enough. Yes. Yeah. It is, uh, as the catechism says, super abundant. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:02:05 <affirmative> super
Speaker 2 00:02:05 Abundant. And so again, we pull back and say, if you're a Roman Catholic and, and there's a Protestant who wants to share the gospel with you, uh, receive that not as an insult mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but receive it as an act of love. Mm-hmm. Because really you share the gospel, the good news of Jesus, um, with people that you want to know that they are going to be saved, and when they die, they'll be with Christ forever. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So consider it an act of love. Acknowledge on the front end that we kind of are seeing this differently. And that's okay. Here's the big question for everybody. If you're a Catholic or you're a Protestant, we both believe the Bible is the word of God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So let's just lay aside tradition. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and magisterium. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for a moment, if you're Roman Catholic and the gospel, the way of salvation should be explicit in the scriptures alone.
Speaker 2 00:02:54 Yeah. And so if we both agree that's true, this is where I think Catholics and Protestants, they should have a blast doing Bible studies together. Yeah. Because the Bible should be the foundation and support all things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that will say, Catholic tradition and magisterium teaches ca, Protestants, we have some issues because the Bible explicitly contradicts multiple points of tradition and magisterium. Right. And so, uh, but here's the deal. I I've got two kind of tips. Okay. And then, um, we'll get into, um, just some really helpful strategies. Uh, tip number one, and I, I would say anybody who you're talking to about faith, you need to kind of figure out who the other person is mm-hmm. <affirmative> and where they're at. Uh, there are different kinds of Protestants. There are like fake Christians mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there are kind of cultural Christians. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:38 There are really serious Christians. And, and so, uh, this applies to both sides, but there are kind of three different sorts of Catholics you need to know which one you're talking to. The first is what we call a traditional Catholic. Um, and they know and they believe the traditional teachings mm-hmm. <affirmative> of Catholicism, they're probably going to mass regularly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> participate in the sacraments. Um, and they're, they're pretty, they're engaged. Yeah. They're as engaged as a serious Protestant would be about their faith. Right. The second category is we call a cultural Catholic, and they, they really don't know the details. Yeah. Quite honestly, um, they're, they're not really living for Christ. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they go to mass sometimes maybe their Christmas, Christmas, Christmas,
Speaker 1 00:04:19 Christmas, cre,
Speaker 2 00:04:20 Easter. Yeah. And, um, maybe they go a little bit more, maybe they have this like god sense in the back of their head,
Speaker 1 00:04:25 Or like, if I've, if I've done something bad, I go to confession. Right. And I do what they tell me to do. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:04:31 Right. And then you go back and live your life. Yeah. And God isn't really a dominant thought, but, uh, oftentimes cultural Christians have like a, a Catholics have a, uh, a lot of shames. They know what's wrong. Yeah. They don't stop doing it, but they sort of Yeah. Rely on confession and penance. So, um, and then we'll call this third category an evangelical Catholic. And, uh, this is unique because evangelical Catholics, they do exist and for them they are, um, Bible centered. Hmm. They are, um, really, really into the Bible. And in fact, most of the evangelical ones don't believe in sacramental salvation. They believe in the benefits of the sacraments. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they don't believe in a workspace salvation. Um, uh, they believe salvation is by grace through faith. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but they still wanna be connected to the historic church. Or maybe they have a spouse that goes there mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, there's a million different reasons why that might happen. Tradition,
Speaker 1 00:05:17 Tradition,
Speaker 2 00:05:18 Et cetera. So just kind of acknowledging, uh, like who am I talking to? Is this like a traditional Roman Catholic? Yeah. Is it a cultural Catholic, is it an evangelical Catholic? Yeah. And, um, just cuz someone says they're Catholic and you might have a strong view of that. Like give 'em some grace and
Speaker 1 00:05:31 Be nice. Yeah. Well, and just in general, as you're talking to anybody about the gospel, probably a good thing to do is figure out where they're at. Where they're at.
Speaker 2 00:05:37 Yeah. Like, ask questions. Yeah. And listen mm-hmm. <affirmative>, don't just assume Protestants, everybody, it's just a human thing. We just kind of take our preowned categories and bias cram 'em onto people. Steam
Speaker 1 00:05:47 Roll. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:48 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know, I'd like to be asked questions Yeah. Before I'm preached that mm-hmm. And told I'm going to hell or something. Yeah. Um, here's the second tip. It's just don't be a jerk. Um, you just don't need to be mean.
Speaker 1 00:05:58 Seems so simple.
Speaker 2 00:05:59 Yeah. And honestly, like two little things here. One is, uh, you don't break open doors that aren't open in front of you. Mm-hmm. Like, just relax a little bit. Uh, if the Holy Spirit's at work, it's o you can ask somebody, Hey, can I share with you what we believe? And if they say no, go. Okay, cool. Let me know if you ever want to Yeah. Just be nice and then just kind of have a heart of grace towards the person. I, I've always found it better, um, that I want to make sure that I love the person no matter what they do or don't do with my Jesus. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Uh, is my relationship with them contingent on their performance or obedience or agreement with me. If it is Right. I honestly, I don't think people are gonna listen to you anyways. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:06:37 All right. So four strategies, uh, again, this is for anybody trying to do <laugh>. Yep. <laugh>, anything persuasive at the end of the day, um, number one, it's so simple, but just talk and ideally, uh, bring things back to the Bible mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what, where most Roman Catholics have their Catholicism undone is when they begin to see the discrepancy between what the magisterium or the teachings of the popes mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the tradition, the teachings of pastors pass the apostles, um, how they contradict. They're not just not in the Bible, but they actually contradict the Bible. Right. And most Protestants, um, or most Catholics, they don't believe it. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's in there. It's in there, it's in there. But they haven't
Speaker 1 00:07:30 Read it. Yep. And they can't tell you where can they just, it's in there, it's just
Speaker 2 00:07:33 In there somewhere. Because I've always known this, everything I've ever known can't be wrong. And it's not that everything is wrong, it's not, it's just that there are some things that are really important that pieces, the pieces that are honestly really foundational that need to be addressed. So if you look at them and say, like, is praying to saints in, in the New Testament? No. Is the rosary No. The macular conception of Mary. No, no. The office of Pope. No. Um, I, we just go down the line. Right, sure. And it's like, but they don't know that. Mm-hmm. So talk about it mm-hmm. And actually open up these discussions and what I, what I found is, is that when a Protestant gently nicely not in an argument, is able to have a discussion where they personalize it. Yeah. You know, like my, my biggest issue is all of these things just aren't in the Bible and I what to do with that. I've hunted, I can't find them. Yep. That should, rather than saying, you need to go to the Bible and find it. Right. Very few people like being challenged on
Speaker 1 00:08:26 Their faith. Well, and in this era in particular, I think a lot of people have forgotten how to have discourse Yeah. With each other. And it's not, you know, don't come in just trying to convince you. Yep. Even though the gospel is correct and you are right. Yep. You still can't come in and steamroll somebody and say everything you've ever believed is wrong. Right. And you're gonna get this, like, this is gonna screw up your whole life if you don't get it. Yep. And not be open to that discourse and answer questions respectfully and don't just throw down or freak out when you don't know the answer. Yep. The best thing about being a Christian, a gospel believing Christian, is that the source of all truth is literally right at our fingertips. Yep. And everything that we do can go right back into the Bible. Yeah. And that's where you can go for your information. And we
Speaker 2 00:09:10 Both, we both believe in the Bible and the seven extra books and the parts of Daniel and um, um, Esther that are, are in the Catholic Bible are not gonna create any controversy mm-hmm. <affirmative> in any major doctrines whatsoever. Yeah. Like, you fine study those. Like they're not gonna be troublesome for you. Right.
Speaker 1 00:09:25 Those also don't include the things that you had mentioned before.
Speaker 2 00:09:28 They don't, you know. Right. And that, and that's thankful. Like I'm very grateful that the Bible, even the actual books they add don't include these extra doctrines. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, tip number strategy number two is um, ask them to do a Bible study. Yeah. Again, you don't have to leave the Bible study agreeing, I've never done a Bible study that hasn't been good for my soul. Yeah. And I don't require that the person I'm doing a bible study with agree with me mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know what I mean? Like it's okay. Yeah. You're gonna find that. Um, I would say it's interesting cuz like 90% of what a Protestant believes and affirms Roman does, Roman does also mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we have the same views on marriage. We have the same views on divorce, we have the same views on abortion mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and we'd go down the line, uh, on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus fully God full. Yeah. I mean we, so many things that we agree on and that's where like Roman Catholics and and Protestants should be able to do some Bible studies together. Yeah. And if you don't have this need to be agreed with, you can live and be just fine and maybe you've enjoyed the
Speaker 1 00:10:23 Difference. Well, and also just allow your heart to become more and more tender to the individual sitting across from you. Yeah. I think that's the thing that I've experienced the most with Bible studies with people where we don't disagree necessarily on certain things Yep. That aren't the main thing. Yep. Um, my heart softens to them and I want to get to know why they believe that and how we can break it down Yep. And eventually lead them through the word where they can break that down themselves. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:10:47 We have to ask a question, why do we bring them to the word? I've never saved anybody mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but there's some, there's power in the scriptures because they're God's word. Yeah. They have the power to, to to really transform our heart. And so rather than me, you know, poke at somebody mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I can say, let's do Bible study and see what God's word says. Yeah. And I'm happy to be wrong. Um, strategy number three is, um, invite them to a Protestant church where there's heavy Bible teaching. We find Roman Catholics love Bible teaching. They didn't even know they love it. Yeah. And so it is really, really common mm-hmm. <affirmative> that we have ar Roman Catholic at our church who's like, I've never heard the Bible taught
Speaker 1 00:11:23 Like this person, the hunger that it really just lights inside of them Yes. Has been incredible to
Speaker 2 00:11:29 Watch. It's amazing. And um, and then it, when they realize how beautiful, interesting, and complex the Bible is, and, and then they slowly over time they start comparing mm-hmm. <affirmative> what they've been taught with the scriptures. And some things are in there and some things aren't. And inevitably they get to the core, which is the gospel. And every Roman Catholic eventually is gonna have to face this question, have I personally trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of my sins? Not was I baptized, not, am I taking communion? Have I gone before God and said, I'm sorry, I believe Jesus, you died for my sins. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you were raised from the dead. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I believe in the gospel, save me. Um, because every Roman Catholic and every human being alive. Right. At the end of the day, if you read the scriptures enough, they're gonna draw you to the point where individually you have to make that decision.
Speaker 2 00:12:15 Yes. Nobody can do it for you. Right. Water can't do it for you. A priest can't do it for you. The Pope can't do it for you. Parents can't do it for you. Right. Yeah. You gotta do it. Mm. Uh, last strategy is just open up your personal relationship with God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, I, I've become very secure in my relationship with God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you don't have to believe in my God at all for me to share with you what's going on in my life. Right. So what I found is my non-Christian friends and my friends from different faiths, they're happy to share everything what's happened in their life, even though they know I don't agree with them. Yeah. Or believe in what they believe. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and this is the reality of friendship. Like, we can disagree on fundamental things, but if you love me, you'll wanna know what's happening in my life.
Speaker 2 00:12:50 Yeah. So I wanna share with you what I'm learning from the word of God. I wanna share with you the things I've been convicted of. I wanna share with you the things that God's calling me too. And, and I would just say like, get really transparent about your relationship with God. Yeah. In fact, you should probably do this with everybody. Yeah. Because I think ev it'll really weed out who your real friends are and who are the friends who are like, if you don't agree with me, then we can't talk. You know, and those aren't, those are
Speaker 1 00:13:09 Hard friends. Absolutely. I also love to see Christians just allow the Holy Spirit to work in their own lives and then speak for itself. Yep. And then be addressed by someone who says, you know what? I've really noticed this change in you, or you used to do this and now you don't what's happening. We'll talk about a door opening to you and just being able to then share your life experience and how God has really been the source of that transformation.
Speaker 2 00:13:32 Amen. Amen. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 00:13:34 That is good. Well thank you for going through all of these strategies. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, just pray over every single person who has met with the gospel, whether they're Roman Catholic or otherwise. Yep. And pray that the Holy Spirit just does
Speaker 2 00:13:44 His work. Amen. Especially even sometimes for Protestants. That's right. I mean, a lot of Protestants and I'm like, I don't think you've ever come to Jesus. Yes. I don't think you've ever asked him for
Speaker 1 00:13:51 Forgive. Have I told you about Jesus? Have I told you that? Yeah. So thanks.
